“So thrilled that my old band Hinterland from 1990 was featured in this podcast. Thank you Paul. Donal would have loved it.”
Gerry Leonard

On this episode I’m joined by Gerry Leonard for a deep dive into Hinterland’s Kissing the Roof of Heaven released in 1990 on Island Records.

Both Donal Coughlan and Gerry Leonard had been in a variety of Dublin bands during the 80s but it wasn’t until they both moved to Copenhagen in 1986 that they got to know each other.

They had met a few years previously when Leonard had borrowed a porta-studio from Coughlan but their friendship really blossomed in Copenhagen. Early in 1987 the duo returned to Dublin and formed Hinterland – Coughlan was principally responsible for the lyrics while both concentrated on melodies and arrangements. They also played a series of sessions and live gigs as augmented members of other bands including playing with both Stano and Princess Tinymeat.

Their demos came to the attention of Britain’s record and publishing companies and the duo signed to Island records.

‘Dark Hill’, their debut single, was released in January 1990. Reviewing it in the NME, Andrew Collins wrote:

“A hinterland is a land lying behind something else, and as if to deftly follow this ‘concept’ through, behind the throaty, realistic vocals and stadium-hungry drums on this Dublin band’s debut crack of the whip, there lies what must be a good hectare of atmosphere, mostly thanks to (probably) trad Irish instruments from a local museum and not a little clever keyboardry. The result is sort of misty. I can go for that.”

‘Desert Boots’ came next and this time Terry Staunton in the NME wrote: “’Desert Boots’ is an adolescent love affair coming to terms with the adult world, its folkspun riff conjuring up pictures of playground dares and real-life responsibility.”

That’s where I came in – I bought ‘Desert Boots’ on 7” in the summer of 1990. They wrote about being teenagers in Dublin hanging out in St Anne’s Park, the Dandelion market and Burrow beach. I didn’t know those places but in those carefree summer days of the weeks after I sat my Leaving Cert I could relate to it.  

“Desert Boots and duffle coats
We hid our beer in cans of coke
We'd drink them on a football pitch
And dance around like lunatics”

I was all in, and to this day whenever I hear the song I’ve transported back to the summer of 1990.

Kissing the Roof of Heaven followed on 16 July that summer. Cash Box, the influential American Radio Tip Sheet, described the album as:

“More treasure from the much plundered Emerald Isle. Dublin’s Hinterland produce mature, minimal music with a rock and roll attitude softened by more than a hint of Celtic spirituality. Standout tracks include the bittersweet ballads ‘Stanley’s Minutes’ and ‘Aeroplane’ the tongue-in-cheek ‘Desert Boots’ and the touchingly vulnerable ‘Handle Me’.”

And it was in the vulnerability of ‘Handle Me’ and one of the album’s other highlights, the beautiful ‘Galway Bay’ where the true magic lay. A few years earlier Coughlan had been diagnosed with MS and in those songs in particular he addresses coming-to-terms with his diagnosis

“Had a vision of the future which suddenly disappeared, you got to handle me.” He sings on ‘Handle Me’.

“It’s Galway Bay, St Patrick’s Day, the reality’s here to stay. So I’m walking towards the seashore, but the seashore gets further away.” He sings on ‘Galway Bay’.

Of course, the meaning and significance of these metaphors were lost on me in the summer of 1990 but the more I’ve listened to this album over the years the more I believe that these are two of the most beautiful Irish songs ever written and recorded.

Demos were recorded for a second album but it wasn’t to be. In the mid-90s Leonard headed for New York with $200 in his pocket and the fact that he ended up working with Bowie is the stuff of dreams. He’s worked with Suzanne Vega and loads of others and we chat about all of that and more in this episode.   

The next time I saw Donal Coughlan’s name it was in 1999 when he contributed to Bring Trouble, the second album from Ken Sweeney’s Brian. Donal Coughlan sadly passed away in 2016, he was only 54.

When people ask me what do Hinterland sound like, I say if you like The Blue Nile or late period Talk Talk you’d love Kissing the Roof of Heaven. It doesn’t sound like those bands but something about it always reminds me of those great bands.

It has an atmosphere of its own, some of its production sounds obviously locate it firmly in late the late 80s but it’s got a magical quality to it that is undefinable, there’s a reason why a lot of the reviews of the time wrote about the album’s Celticness, it’s spirituality, it’s mysticism.   

It’s a fantastic album. I originally had it one side of a C90 tape, The La’s album was on the reverse. I bought The La’s album on CD in the 90s but could never find Hinterland’s record. My tapes were purged prior to a house move in 2004.

While walking down Brick Lane in London in the summer of 2018 I stopped at a record stall. The guy had a box of LPs priced up at £3. I rolled up my sleeves and waded in. There it was, Kissing the Roof of Heaven by Hinterland in lovely minty condition. £3, thank you very much. I’ll take that.

Kissing the Roof of Heaven – probably the cheapest album covered in 41 episodes of this podcast.

Chris O’Brien

Chris O’Brien is a producer/mixer who has worked with some of the biggest names in Irish music. He has worked with artists as diverse as: Clannad, The Waterboys, Aslan, Something Happens, The Stunning, The Stars of Heaven, A House, Cactus World News, Emma Langford, Whipping Boy, Hot House Flowers, A House, Gemma Hayes, The Blue Nile and countless others. He runs The Production Suite with Graham Murphy. Here he recalls his time working with Hinterland.

They were the best album demos I had heard at that time, for example the song ‘Handle Me’ just floored me on first listen, the lyric, melody, the mood of the song and the lift that the slide guitar brings is incredible. In the Spring of 1989 we started recording in Ireland's first all-digital studio in the old Regal Cinema in Ringsend and bunkered in for a good five months or so. All the tracks had a definite blueprint that came from the band’s demo tapes which of course were always referenced for parts and mood. The task in hand was for the album recording to take on a bigger soundstage and with the added dimension of Wayne Sheehy’s drums and percussion and great performances from the guys we had all the ingredients to make that classic LP.

It was the classic studio environment with long days and weeks working in a windowless and isolated building but with a lot of fun too only disturbed by the odd guest - one of which was Island Records founder Chris Blackwell who dropped by for a playback and an afternoon of great tales.                     

I wasn’t aware of Donal’s Illness at the time as I hadn’t known the guys that long and also didn’t think it was public knowledge. There was no doubt that there was something special going on with Donal’s songwriting, one look at the lyric sheet in front of you would affirm this though their true meaning would only be revealed through time. I loved the soft Irish accent that Donal sang in and the place names and locations he referenced in his lyrics. It painted a clearer and more personal picture as in songs such as Galway Bay and the great song ‘Stanley’s Minutes’.

Gerry’s has a very particular guitar-style - a very personal recognisable style. I suppose it has an “Irish atmospheric heart” where the definition is sometimes blurred between guitar and keyboard but it was Gerry’s fingerpicking style that set it apart from the U2 wannabe’s for me. He had a very precise way of playing with a great choice of chord, melody and sound in his guitar style which was very sympathetic to the lyric and painted the perfect picture.

I think it still sounds great and the songs haven’t lost any of their shine over the 35 or so years since it was recorded. It’s a hidden gem and definitely one of the great experiences of my career. Hats off too to Kevin Killen how did the final mix and to Kieran Owens the band’s manager who glued the whole project together.

by Chris O’Brien (mixing engineer on Kissing the Roof of Heaven)

Wayne Sheehy

Wayne Sheehy was the drummer in Cactus World News and has performed with Robert Palmer, Eric Burdon, Moya Brennan, Michelle Shocked, Damien Dempsey, Juliet Turner, Mary Coughlan, Hothouse Flowers and countless others. He spent years touring and recording as a member of Ronnie Wood’s band. He’s a producer and runs Ocean Studios Ireland on Sheep’s Head Peninsula in Co. Cork on the Wild Atlantic Way. Here he recalls his time working with Hinterland.

It was a particularly joyous session. I had the same management as Hinterland so I’d heard the demos before the boys approached me. I instantly fell in love with the songs, as I was a massive Cocteau Twins, The Blue Nile, Tears for Fears and Peter Gabriel fan and had worked quite a bit in Real world.

The demos were heavily programmed rhythmically and they were determined that the parts would be very similar sonically and arrangement wise but with a human dynamic and feel. A challenge, but one I accepted. Cutting the drum tracks on ‘Handle Me’ was quite emotional. Chris recorded and captured the drums very powerfully which happened on most of the tracks. The final mixes although beautiful, somewhat returned to the more linear dynamic on the demos. They had quite a strong vision of what they wanted.

I believe Donal was a lyrical genius, he would be laughing at me if he read this. Every single track on Kissing the Roof of Heaven had a way of creating familiarity and empathy but in Donal’s absolutely unique way. When he explained ‘Galway Bay’ it was difficult to take in the harsh reality of those lyrics.

I was emotionally involved with the music although I didn’t compose it. It was one of the most fun sessions ever. The entire team disappeared down a rabbit hole and we did everything together including the studio manager and caterer. There was a lot of excitement around the band, we all loved the songs, respected one another professionally and that chemistry was rare to find. I loved the songs, the people became dear friends and I was invested in their dream.

I was the drummer when we toured the album. They didn’t tour extensively but toured Switzerland repeatedly which was great fun, Ireland twice I think and opened in London for a couple of big acts. We were slaves to technology so the gigs were constantly becoming less so and more organic.

I’m a producer and composer myself, so some things age more than others production wise, however songs of this calibre are still rare all on the one album, it’s a treasure.

 by Wayne Sheehy (drummer on Kissing the Roof of Heaven)

For Further Listening/Reading:

Kissing the Roof of Heaven is available on Spotify:

In the episode I mentioned to Gerry that Chris O’Brien had spoken to Colm O’Callaghan for his article on Hinterland. That tribute to Donal Coughlan can be read on The Blackpool Sentinel here.

Hinterland’s 1990 Fanning Session is available at The Fanning Sessions Archive here.

Below: Press cuttings from various UK and US music publications, click on each image to enlarge.